CP3 Pump modification

[James Hess]

I found a kit for the CP3 that instead of buying a whole pump you can get the parts to modify your stocker for around 750.00. It only gives you 15% more fuel than stock qnd i was just wondering how hard it would be to modify and if it is worth it money wise.

I think that is a bit pricey for just 15% more cause at a different site i found an already built CP3 that flows 48% more fuel for 1400.00 and when you send in your core you get a 700.00 core charge back. Yeah its more in the beginning but you get more in the end for less.

What are yall thoughts?

[blksmok]

Moving to fuel section.

[blksmok]

If you can get a built CP3 for less than upgrading your own and it will flow more fuel, it seems like a better choice. JMO

[Josh2002cc]

Why do you want to upgrade your cp3 pump?

[James Hess]

Just to get a little more fuel.

Dave the upgraded pump costs 1400 bucks but you end up getting 700 back so its more in the beginning. But i definatly agree with ya.

[blksmok]

Honestly Josh is right though, you need many more things before you even need to start thinking about more fuel than your stock CP3 can deliver. You are a long way from being limited by your stock CP3.

[James Hess]

I was just thinking about it cause its cheaper then getting injectors for now haha. The same place that sells the upgaded pump also sells 90 hp injectors for almost 600 bucks but in the add it says "per one" and i cant afford right now 600 bucks per injector if i am understanding that right.

[blksmok]

You don't need injectors either. You get a trans that will hold some power, EFILive will deliver the power you need.

You rode in Brians truck... He has stock CP3 and stock injectors...

And the tune he had loaded when he took you for a ride isn't even his biggest tune.

[James Hess]

Well now my focus has been shifted ):h, i am starting to understand more and more about diesels lol.

[GmcLbz]

Also, the core charge is more than likely on top of the $1400.00 for the pump. So in the end you will spend $1400.00 for the pump.

[NWTDIESEL]

The LBZ LMM pump comes with a larger stroke cp3 than the LB7 LLY from the factory. A new LBZ LLM pump will cost 600.00 with no core. OR I can e-mail you a 8 page instruction manuel on how to mod your current cp3 20% more volume for free.....all for free. DONT pay for this mod unless you are paying sumone to do it for you. If you arent holding rail pressure the cp3 pump mods WILL help hold more fuel in the rails under full throttle. In return from holding better rail pressure you will gain HP.

[goodwrenchtech]

How much hp can the stock LMM cp3 support be for you need extra stuff? Was thinking around 400hp or a little less at the tires. M I way off on my thinking.

[NWTDIESEL]

How much hp can the stock LMM cp3 support be for you need extra stuff? Was thinking around 400hp or a little less at the tires. M I way off on my thinking.

You can get around 500hp at the wheels off a stock LMM pump. Tonys LB7 has a stock LBZ pump and runs 12s. My stock LB7 pump has made over 500hp with some "extra stuff" to help the rail pressure. I know have a Modded LMM pump that i just put on and modded myself.

[goodwrenchtech]

You can get around 500hp at the wheels off a stock LMM pump. Tonys LB7 has a stock LBZ pump and runs 12s. My stock LB7 pump has made over 500hp with some "extra stuff" to help the rail pressure. I know have a Modded LMM pump that i just put on and modded myself.

Ok let me restate the ?. How much hp can a stock LMM cp3 with fuel pump(s) and fuel rail help? Cp3 stock form how much fuel can it push before needing another or modding it. Still 500?

[NWTDIESEL]

stock cp3 with fuel pump and fuel rail? Do you meen a stock cp3 with a lift pump like a FASS or PPE (for example)? what do you meen with a fuel rail?

It all depends on your tuning and what you are demanding your injectors to flow. Thats why tuning is so important. You can demand so much fuel that it will draw your rails down to (lb7 for example) 16,000psi actual from tha desired 23,000psi. Thats leaving 7,000psi to gain back and to make power with. When you modd your pump you are trying to gain back psi...trying to knock the 7,000 lost psi down to 3,000 lost psi which in return will give you more fuel and a total of 20,000psi which makes/made more power. A dyno pull is a short burst which will not simulate a drag strip run. On the drag strip you will pull more fuel down and out of the rails since you will be on the go pedal much much longer (go thru all five gears at the track VS a single gear pull on the dyno). Thats where a lift pump comes into play.

How much fuel can a stock LMM cp3 pump push before needing another or modds? Answer: trick question, a dyno will read more HP since its a short burst of power vs a run on the drag strip. Your fuel rails will get drawn empty on the strip with a nasty tune and no lift pump.

[NWTDIESEL]

These tests are from Mcrat, i just copied and pasted what he has found. If you want the thread i can paste the link. He tested a stock LBZ, Modded Industrial and wicked diesel CP3. He has also taken a stock cp3 way over the 540hp level.


I took 3 pumps, a stock LBZ, an Industrial Injection mod'd pump, and a Wicked Diesels mod'd pump. I used a flowmeter and attached the CP3 to the 2nd CP3 slot on Casper. Casper has 12PSI lift pump. Tests were done at max flow, unrestricted. Restricted reading were about 1/3rd lower and leaked fuel.

Results So Far:


Code:
TYPE 680RPM 2000RPM 3900RPM
LBZ Stock 0.22 0.47 0.67

IndustrialInject 0.26 0.50 0.75

Wicked Diesels 0.33 0.57 0.8


We know a single stock LBZ pump can go 542rwhp with a stock charger.

So the Wicked Diesel Pump is capable of at least 20% more, so 650 rwhp should be simple with a single CP3 and a 66 mm charger, which is the limit to stock engine reliability historically.

My guess is we will see over 700rwhp on fuel with a single pump before the summer is over. This is the pump IMO.

[James Hess]

Will modding the CP3 gain you more power with stock rails, charger, injectors, and fuel system(not a FASS or other brand) without tuning for more fuel flow itself?

Thats the reason i want to mod my pump is to get a little more power from the truck(plus i love the smoke LOL ):h)

[NWTDIESEL]

Will modding the CP3 gain you more power with stock rails, charger, injectors, and fuel system(not a FASS or other brand) without tuning for more fuel flow itself?

Thats the reason i want to mod my pump is to get a little more power from the truck(plus i love the smoke LOL ):h)

It will give you more power and smoke if you ARENT already flowing the desired rail pressure your truck is commanding at WOT. If you are holding rail pressure rite now as your truck sits then NO. You wont gain any horse power with out demanding more fuel via EFI (which is simple and takes a few minutes) Then you will get more smoke and power.

[James Hess]

Well i still wanna do it lol.

sent you a PM.

[goodwrenchtech]

These tests are from Mcrat, i just copied and pasted what he has found. If you want the thread i can paste the link. He tested a stock LBZ, Modded Industrial and wicked diesel CP3. He has also taken a stock cp3 way over the 540hp level.


I took 3 pumps, a stock LBZ, an Industrial Injection mod'd pump, and a Wicked Diesels mod'd pump. I used a flowmeter and attached the CP3 to the 2nd CP3 slot on Casper. Casper has 12PSI lift pump. Tests were done at max flow, unrestricted. Restricted reading were about 1/3rd lower and leaked fuel.

Results So Far:


Code:
TYPE 680RPM 2000RPM 3900RPM
LBZ Stock 0.22 0.47 0.67

IndustrialInject 0.26 0.50 0.75

Wicked Diesels 0.33 0.57 0.8


We know a single stock LBZ pump can go 542rwhp with a stock charger.

So the Wicked Diesel Pump is capable of at least 20% more, so 650 rwhp should be simple with a single CP3 and a 66 mm charger, which is the limit to stock engine reliability historically.

My guess is we will see over 700rwhp on fuel with a single pump before the summer is over. This is the pump IMO.
That asnwers my?. Thanks.

[hondarider552]

Will modding the CP3 gain you more power with stock rails, charger, injectors, and fuel system(not a FASS or other brand) without tuning for more fuel flow itself?

Thats the reason i want to mod my pump is to get a little more power from the truck(plus i love the smoke LOL ):h)
no, but a built trans will benifit a lot better from the mod..

[NWTDIESEL]

no, but a built trans will benifit a lot better from the mod..

Yes, it will give you more power without doing any tuning IF you are running a big tune that is pulling your rails down. A pump that supplies more fuel % will push more fuel in to the rails....

Eh, i understand he will benefit more from a trans but we are talking about modding his pump FOR FREE. Nothing is sweeter than free mods.

[James Hess]

Nothing is sweeter than free mods.

Thats for damn sure lol. Dave tuned me in for 15% more fuel and added boost to clean up the exhaust but for the most part use the fuel the truck is putting out. With saying that i doubt i am comanding more fuel at WOT than the truck can handle for now but with this mod will i see more smoke and hp at WOT with this tuning?

[NWTDIESEL]

Thats for damn sure lol. Dave tuned me in for 15% more fuel and added boost to clean up the exhaust but for the most part use the fuel the truck is putting out. With saying that i doubt i am comanding more fuel at WOT than the truck can handle for now but with this mod will i see more smoke and hp at WOT with this tuning?

What is your rail pressure holding? If your actual is keeping up with your desired you WILL NOT SEE ANY GAINS. This mod is for when you are pushing your truck to the limit (like Brian) and your cp3 cant keep up with the demanded fuel volume flowing through the rails and injectors.

[James Hess]

Again i doubt i am demanding more than the truck can handle and i do not know my pressures, i would just like to have the info to do it for when i do need it.:thumb:

I still havnt got an email bud.:(

[neversatisfied]

http://www.relentlessdiesel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5#p13

[James Hess]

Damn! Thanks bud thats pretty informative. If i understand it right(which i more than likely dont) what he said is that even if you havnt tuned for more fuel and your not commanding more than it can push you will still get more fuel to the motor.

The write up states: Each plunger makes the same length downward and upward stroke on each revolution regardless of how much fuel is commanded. If the plungers were full of fuel the pump would always move the same amount of fuel per revolution and we know that's not true. At light throttle/low power the pump moves very little fuel into the rail. At high power levels the pump moves all the fuel it can.

So even if i am not asking for more fuel than the truck can handle i will still get more fuel to the motor if i put the fun pedal to the floor?

[blksmok]

Damn! Thanks bud thats pretty informative. If i understand it right(which i more than likely dont) what he said is that even if you havnt tuned for more fuel and your not commanding more than it can push you will still get more fuel to the motor.

The write up states: Each plunger makes the same length downward and upward stroke on each revolution regardless of how much fuel is commanded. If the plungers were full of fuel the pump would always move the same amount of fuel per revolution and we know that's not true. At light throttle/low power the pump moves very little fuel into the rail. At high power levels the pump moves all the fuel it can.

So even if i am not asking for more fuel than the truck can handle i will still get more fuel to the motor if i put the fun pedal to the floor?

James,
No. The tune you are running is FAR from the limits of the stock pump. If you aren't able to maintain fuel rail pressure with that tune it's because your filter is clogged. Unless you are getting a low fuel rail pressure code, then your fuel rail pressure is staying in line with what is commanded via the tune. That being the case, this mod will not deliver more fuel to the engine. You will only get UP TO the amount requested by your fuel tables, not more, no matter what CP3 you have.

[hondarider552]

What is your rail pressure holding? If your actual is keeping up with your desired you WILL NOT SEE ANY GAINS. This mod is for when you are pushing your truck to the limit (like Brian) and your cp3 cant keep up with the demanded fuel volume flowing through the rails and injectors.
X2..

Even on my 500+ horse tune, im still holding 24k rail pressure with tts pumps and 2 fuel filters.

[Nick]

Modified CP3's are only worth a few extra ponies on a max effort stock turbo setup. Of course, it depends on the starting health of the pump. A stock LBZ/LMM pump with a liftpump is usually plenty until you put a bigger compressor on the truck.

For what it's worth, the steps in that writeup work ):h

[NWTDIESEL]

Modified CP3's are only worth a few extra ponies on a max effort stock turbo setup. Of course, it depends on the starting health of the pump. A stock LBZ/LMM pump with a liftpump is usually plenty until you put a bigger compressor on the truck.

For what it's worth, the steps in that writeup work ):h

Just so you guys know, thats a Dodge cp3. The dmax cp3 looks a lil diff inside.

[James Hess]

Dave when i said i am pretty sure that i am not commanding more than what the truck can give i should have been more clear and said that i know it isnt even close lol. Either way i just wanted to do this to have it done but i guess i will turn my attention to my trans and then get you to turn it up a little.

[Josh2002cc]

Get a trans first and EFI which has already been stated in this thread. No sense spending money when your truck cannot handle the power in which the stock cp3 can supply as is. If you cannot afford a $4,000 transmission right now...SAVE SAVE SAVE because the $1400 or whatever it is you want to spend on a cp3 pump would help alot if it went to the trans fund.

[James Hess]

Yeah i have already figured am going to beef the trans for now but would getting some ALTO clutches and a better converter work for now?

[hondarider552]

Yeah i have already figured am going to beef the trans for now but would getting some ALTO clutches and a better converter work for now?yes it would but you have to pull the trans already. Save and do it right the first time.

[blksmok]

yes it would but you have to pull the trans already. Save and do it right the first time.

:exactly:

Do you want to do it right or do it right now? :)

[James Hess]

Well id love to do it right lol, but i cant afford that haha yet anyway.

[hondarider552]

Well id love to do it right lol, but i cant afford that haha yet anyway.
YET is a big word.
do it later james. you can have all the power in the world. but without a trans your a sitting duck.

[James Hess]

Trust me i know the feeling of having a trans problem(had a few cars that couldnt handle it) i figure im gonna save and do it right but still get a few things along the way.

[Josh2002cc]

Well, if that is the way you want to do it, great...but upgrade your turbo before you buy a cp3 pump as the stock cp3 can overfuel a stock turbo ;)

[James Hess]

AW Shit money money mooooney ):h

Im just gonna call pimp my truck haha.

[jstrese]

This is about the test that Mcrat did. Does anyone know which pump from Wicked Mcrat used. They have three diff. pumps.

[James Hess]

Im not sure which test your talking about, to be honest i was just looking to mod m CP3 when i started this thread.

Fill me in.