View Full Version : Who's going to be the first to try it?
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/vortecfcar/twinscroll.jpg
Lot of positive feedback in the gasser world, spoolup data shows 1/3rd faster...
Nick
If its given to me I will...
-Nemo
You don't have a T4 pedestal Nemo, what the hell are you going to try it on... ? ):h
Ill get a new turbo at some point... ):h after a trans. lol
-Nemo
MMLMM
03-08-2009, 04:05 AM
I like it Nick, but I am gonna go with a 4094 again if I switch turbo :(
what are your thoughts on a Electronic model ):h
I don't think they make an electric GT4094 yet, but if they did I'm sure you'd see some gains with this doo-hickey.
MAXLLY
03-08-2009, 09:33 AM
Silly me. I dont get it?
We need the exhaust coupled with pulse and heat to spin these bigger chargers up. How does reducing this by half improve spool up? Reduce pulse and increase velocity through port changes?
Can somebody help the ignorant guy.:)
Like James asks, what is keeping the blocked side from all but stalling the engine? It's got to be a me thing as to why I don't get it.
Micheal Tomac
03-08-2009, 02:23 PM
is that a two barrel carb? ):h
Like James asks, what is keeping the blocked side from all but stalling the engine? It's got to be a me thing as to why I don't get it.
The idea would be to build an open plenum in the exhaust track for a few inches before this part is installed so that both cylinder banks can feed the scroll.
By blocking off the outside scroll on the charger, the exhaust velocity on the inside scroll increases dramatically. This increase in velocity is what improves spoolup. Think of it as cutting the A/R of your turbine in half, so instead of running a 1.01 exhaust housing you'd be running a .50 exhaust while the blade is closed.
Once the truck is on the charger the blade opens and the turbine gets its second A/R back to run the truck up top.
So yes, it's like a two barrel - with a vacuum secondary. ):h
Nick
keith2500hd
03-08-2009, 04:51 PM
think ak miller had made something like this back in his days, and for that exact reason. think cummins had Big Cam engine with this similar setup also to assist lowend take-off breaking torque, that was when they put out compound turbo setup. so i can see it will do it.
MMLMM
03-08-2009, 05:48 PM
I don't think they make an electric GT4094 yet, but if they did I'm sure you'd see some gains with this doo-hickey.
I ment this doo-hickey electronic actuated.....
I ment this doo-hickey electronic actuated.....
I know Mike, I was just being a moron.:)
I think there a few actuator options (electronic servo included). It would be nice to use a variable output DSP setup.
A guy can dream....
The idea would be to build an open plenum in the exhaust track for a few inches before this part is installed so that both cylinder banks can feed the scroll.
By blocking off the outside scroll on the charger, the exhaust velocity on the inside scroll increases dramatically. This increase in velocity is what improves spoolup. Think of it as cutting the A/R of your turbine in half, so instead of running a 1.01 exhaust housing you'd be running a .50 exhaust while the blade is closed.
Once the truck is on the charger the blade opens and the turbine gets its second A/R back to run the truck up top.
So yes, it's like a two barrel - with a vacuum secondary. ):h
Nick
So the question should have been. Who wants to be the first to try this along with a new pedestal ):h
I understood what it would take to make it work but was unsure if everyone else would know. Thanks
It'll work with the new T-netics pedestal..:)
Otherwise I suppose you could just mill the center section out of a PPE type riser.
Come on Mike, work with me here ):h
It'll work with the new T-netics pedestal..:)
Otherwise I suppose you could just mill the center section out of a PPE type riser.
Come on Mike, work with me here ):h
No worries Nick. Can't wait to see how it helps a big charger with a big turbine housing. Get off the computer and find out. :thumb:
MMLMM
03-09-2009, 03:12 AM
I know Mike, I was just being a moron.:)
I think there a few actuator options (electronic servo included). It would be nice to use a variable output DSP setup.
A guy can dream....
oooo, or a few tables for it in EFI Live....):h
hondarider552
03-09-2009, 04:08 AM
send me a turbo and this doo-hickie and i'll test it ):h
MAXLLY
03-09-2009, 11:03 AM
I get it, velocity.
Can the fabricator integrate a wastegate into the design so i don't have to have a 3 piece pedistal?
I have a modded PPE spacer, and plan on a wastegate install... this would be a 3rd part for me, IMO more parts/more potential for leaks (4 gaskets in 3").
Whats the control currently hooked to? Boost? when it "see's" X boost it creeps the butterfly open?
I know, I know i have to ask though. :)
Diesel Tech
03-09-2009, 12:39 PM
These have been around for years. I think AK Miller was the first to do it in the late 1960's. It works but does have some down side issues on a daily driver. The blade tends to get stuck from too much carbon build up on it. If it sticks in the closed position turbo's blow up, if it sticks open and your fuel is set up for it to bring the boost in quick you've got way to much fuel. In racing applications where it can be checked and cleaned they help for spool up.
Steve,
Do you think there might be an advantage to undersizing the blade in our application to prevent these issues? I realize it would be a compromise, but it would be better than the alternative.
Nick
fishsmith
03-09-2009, 03:34 PM
I will give this a shot after I get my truck back and get used to the 66mm. Give me a month or two and I will be ready to try it, along with a bigger turbo of course.
Diesel Tech
03-09-2009, 10:05 PM
It's not the blade that sticks in most cases. It's the shaft.
Having a stuck shaft is no fun....
neversatisfied
03-10-2009, 01:08 AM
:hehe::hehe::hehe:
Diesel Tech
03-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Some stuck shafts are better than others.....
I guess we all should keep our shafts polished ):h
RickDLance
03-10-2009, 01:09 PM
And lubricated! ):h
):h Is the lubricant " Elbow Grease " or ):h
emiller3
03-10-2009, 06:26 PM
Hey,What direction is this thread going in?):h
Depends on a persons perspective ):h
Diesel Tech
03-10-2009, 07:52 PM
Up or Down...........
keith2500hd
03-14-2009, 10:07 PM
can see it working and should help with low speed acceleration. with surface coatings should be able to lubricate to operate in hi exhaust temps. if they been using it on gas engines, should have problems worked out.
MAXLLY
03-14-2009, 11:49 PM
I'd try one, great idea.
I think it would be more beneficial on a larger charger though. Just my .02, i really have no idea. Just thinking out loud.
I wonder how much pressure is required to blow it open? The builder appears to be into lower compression gas/ricer stuff. A 400 cube 16:1 diesel has a little harder pulse no?
I agree James, it does look a little flimsy for high pressure use but the Supras they were testing them on were in the ~20+PSI range if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not involved with building or selling them at this time, I just found them on the web and am interested to see someone try one.
See this link (http://www.sound-performance.com/p192/Sound-Performance-Quick-Spool-Valve/product_info.html)for more info
http://www.sound-performance.com/images/abm_spqsv_tq.jpg
Nick
MAXLLY
03-15-2009, 01:22 AM
Apologize if i came across critical, not my intentions.:)
I spose they could increase the leverage through the diaphram area/section, or by increasing the length of the lever/link.
I am sure it could be overcome. I am dealing with several variables now, I don't need to add anymore at this point. Thanks for sharing the link and part info. :Handshake:
I didn't think you came across critical at all... http://deephousepage.com/smilies/alc.gif no worries
It's hard to say how it would work in our application, only that it looks promising. Just something to get the wheels turning is all. :)
Nick
Diesel Tech
03-15-2009, 02:34 PM
The issue comes from carbon build up over the life in a gasoline application. On the gas side of things you are on dealing with exhaust pressures in the 30 psi range max. IH used this very technology on the Ford 7.3L diesel to aid in warming the motors up, not to control the turbo but had the same old problems with the valves getting stuck.
DuramaxPowered
03-15-2009, 04:13 PM
The issue comes from carbon build up over the life in a gasoline application. On the gas side of things you are on dealing with exhaust pressures in the 30 psi range max. IH used this very technology on the Ford 7.3L diesel to aid in warming the motors up, not to control the turbo but had the same old problems with the valves getting stuck.
yup, they work decent for a cheap exhaust brake too, when wired up right.
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