labonte water/meth

[hondarider552]

so im about to order the stage 1 kit,m and was wondering if anyone knew how to plub the main feed tank i.e. the windshield washer tank.. i know they include a 2 qt. tank and i'll us eit if i have to, but id rather use the W.W. tank. anyone know how to go off of the bottom of the tank? any help would be appreciated. brian

[Josh2002cc]

You could remove your washer tank and drill a hole, use a rubber bushing just as your washer pump uses and you should be okay.

If you needed a rubber bushing, I have some at work that I could set you up with. They are rated for diesel fuel so I know it will hold up to washer fluid.

[camcojb]

I used the stock reservoir, works great unless you're using it for towing (would need a bigger tank). I used a bulkhead fitting and then added a short piece of line inside the tank to pull from the very bottom of the tank.

http://www.camcojb.com/silverado%20041.jpg

Hid the pump behind the inner fenderwell:

http://www.camcojb.com/silverado%20043.jpg

With an LMM I put the nozzles here:

http://www.camcojb.com/silverado%20045.jpg

Mounted the box behind the drivers side battery:

http://www.camcojb.com/silverado%20044.jpg

Jody

[hondarider552]

ok cool. i'll be in contact with you if i go that route. thanks:thumb:

[hondarider552]

perfect jody! thats where i was thinking to mount mine. WW tank is 1 gallon right?

[Josh2002cc]

Wow nice pics buddy!

One question, where you mounted that bulkhead fitting are you going to be able to use the screw that secures the tank? Looks like the fitting is right where the screw would come through.

[blksmok]

Jody, thanks for posting that! :D

Jody does some really nice work guys... I would encourage you to check out the link in his signature to some of his car builds. They are top notch! :thumb:

[camcojb]

Wow nice pics buddy!

One question, where you mounted that bulkhead fitting are you going to be able to use the screw that secures the tank? Looks like the fitting is right where the screw would come through.

yes, plenty of room. It's the angle of the pic, looks closer than it really is.

Jody

[camcojb]

Jody, thanks for posting that! :D

Jody does some really nice work guys... I would encourage you to check out the link in his signature to some of his car builds. They are top notch! :thumb:

thanks Dave, you're too kind............ :)

[hondarider552]

update: baught the stage 1 kit from labonte about an hour ago. i have plans to use the WW tank, and i want to do some tests on how far it will last towing 12k. if i cant make it that far im looking at snow's 7 gallon tank. thanks jody for the pics :thumb:

[blksmok]

Brian,
I'll be very interested to hear your results. Also, next time you tow, you should try my tow tune. I think you might like the power and my EGT's are in line with what they were stock... I'd like to get some feedback on it if you want to give it a shot.

[hondarider552]

thats cool dave. gives me another reason to bug you ):h

[hondarider552]

got water meth kit today..that was a long wait for sure! tinkering around with it to find best way to mount everything..once again thanks jody, your pics have helped much :thumb:

[madmaxdmax]

Brian,


Are you doing this to keep up with my LB7 towing pace, if so I'm sure gonna miss you being in my rear view mirror next dunes trip):h

[hondarider552]

Brian,


Are you doing this to keep up with my LB7 towing pace, if so I'm sure gonna miss you being in my rear view mirror next dunes trip):h
:lol: nah it ran always a little warm towing and gauage always sat at 1100-1300 for 4+ hours..and with people cracking pistons in the lbz's its added insurance to me. that and a tow tune from dave will make me stop worring about egt's..

[Ragin Diesel]

AEM has a nice kit now also. Includes a 5 gallon tank. I have been very impressed with the kit so far. Price is nice also

[blksmok]

AEM has a nice kit now also. Includes a 5 gallon tank. I have been very impressed with the kit so far. Price is nice also

Do they have a controller that takes into account both EGT AND Boost?

[Ragin Diesel]

yes they do. I honestly could not tell a difference between the AEM and Snow kit.

[madmaxdmax]

Okay guys...I kinda lost here with this discussion. What exactly does the water/meth injection do besides cool operations down?

Please excuse my lack of knowledge

:iamlost:

[blksmok]

You can spray a fine mist of water only into the intake to cool down the intake charge and subsequently, cool down the EGT's. You can also add methanol to the mixture (up to a ratio of 50/50) and still cool down EGT's while adding additional power at the same time.

[madmaxdmax]

Okay...now I understand. How often can you spray, or is it just limited to how much water/meth you have in the storage tank ?

[blksmok]

Copied from snow performance FAQ's:

1. What are the benefits of Water/Methanol injection?
1. Greatly reduced EGTs - Decreases of 250 degrees F are common using a 50/50 water/methanol mix. Increased EGTs are an engine killer in today's performance diesel world.
2. Low cost power - Where else can you get 70-100 HP for as low as $519?
3. Greatly increased air charge densities - 3-5 psi boost increases are common with liquid intercooling.
4. Decreased emissions - increased combustion efficiency means less particulate matter and NOX emissions.
5. Fuel economy increase - increase your fuel economy up to 10%-15% (1-3 mpg).
5. Great for towing - more power/cooler EGT's to haul the heaviest loads.



2. Why is Water/Methanol injection so effective on Diesels?
Unlike gasoline engines, the power in a turbo diesel is largely a function of fuel. The problem with continually adding fuel is that you create an overfueling condition and reach a point where the exhaust gas temperatures become prohibitive (over 1500 degrees F). A 50/50 water/methanol mix will decrease EGT's approximately 200-300 degrees F while increasing power 70-100HP.

Power is increased through:

A. Air charge cooling - Water/methanol will lower air charge temps over 200 degrees F in this application. Low air temps makes denser air charge which provides more molecules of oxygen for combustion.
B. Combustion conditioning - the methanol acts as a combustion catalyst as well as a cooling agent. Water increase torque and power output through "the steam engine" effect.

Where else can you get this kind of power with cooler EGT's, reduced emissions, and more fuel economy?




3. Is this technology new with Turbo Diesel?
Water/methanol injection has been used extensively for years in high performance truck/tractor pullers. With the elevated boost levels required for peak power, water/methanol is a common means of cooling the intake charge and reducing exhaust gas temps. Also, truckers have used water injection for years to increase fuel mileage.



4. Why Methanol?
Methanol is a fuel that is extremely clean with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. ($2.00 - $4.00 per gallon.) Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better fuel in diesels than ethanol or isopropanol although they will work in a pinch. It is extremely toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.

5. Is Methanol Safe for my Diesel?
Methanol makes an excellent adjunct fuel. Because it has a cetane number of 4CN, it makes safe power without spiking cylinder pressures. In fact, it cools combustion so much that hotter intake charges and higher compression are required if 100% methanol is used.
"combustion of neat methanol alone results in a cetane number of 4CN with reduced PM (smoke) and NOx. " see SAE Technical Paper #940326 "Combustion and Emissions Characteristics of Minimally Processed Methanol in a Diesel Engine"

6. Where can I get methanol?
SP sells a 50/50 water/methanol mix as Boost Juice™ (see products). Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heet" are simply methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers.
If all else fails, most winter blend windshield washer fluids are acceptable for use. Although some fluids contain glycol and other copolymers, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% methanol. Try to find one that indicates "contains methanol" and is good to -20 degrees F.
Methanol can be purchased on the web at www.worldwideracingfuels.com and www.hiperfuels.com.



7. How long does the fluid last?
The amount of fluid you'll use depends on a couple of variables:

- How much power you're making
- How big of a load you're hauling
- How aggressively you're driving

Our standard 2 quart reservoir is more ment for short interval use like in drag racing or sled pulling. A good option is to tap into your factory windshield washer tank. By using your washer tank to hold the fluid for our system your giving yourself extended range without having to add another bulky item under your hood. Alot of the newer trucks available have built in low level sensors. Using your washer fluid tank DOES NOT mean you lose the ability to clean your windshield. All of our diesel kits include the fitting need to use your washer tank.

Another option is our 7 Gallon Reservoir (#40016) for those taking longer trips and hauling larger loads.

Snow Performance's own 500 whp 2004 Dodge Cummins 1-ton dually uses the factory washer tank. During normal around town driving, we get a full tank of fuel out of a full washer fluid tank of fluid.

[madmaxdmax]

got water meth kit today..that was a long wait for sure! tinkering around with it to find best way to mount everything..once again thanks jody, your pics have helped much :thumb:


Brian,

Can you send me some pics of the water/meth set-up when you get it installed? I am interested in the application.:thumb:

[madmaxdmax]

Thanks Dave...very informative...Geez! I love this site

[blksmok]

Brian,

Can you send me some pics of the water/meth set-up when you get it installed? I am interested in the application.:thumb:

Look at page 1 of this thread. Jody did a real nice job with his install, and posted up great pics.

[madmaxdmax]

What about using Co2 spray into the airflow of the inter-cooler? Does this serve the same purpose or am I confused on the application ?

[madmaxdmax]

Look at page 1 of this thread. Jody did a real nice job with his install, and posted up great pics.


Sorry, passed up page one. Thanks again.

[blksmok]

What about using Co2 spray into the airflow of the inter-cooler? Does this serve the same purpose or am I confused on the application ?

You aren't spraying anything into the airflow of the IC. This is spraying into the intake post IC a water/methanol mixture. You wouldn't want to spary Co2 into the intake as that would deplete the oxygen content going into the cylinder.

[madmaxdmax]

You aren't spraying anything into the airflow of the IC. This is spraying into the intake post IC a water/methanol mixture. You wouldn't want to spary Co2 into the intake as that would deplete the oxygen content going into the cylinder.


I was thinking about the application of spraying a "fog" spray of Co2 into the intercooler not into the turbo inlet like the water/meth injection method. I have seen several drag racers who spray Co2 into the airflow of the intercooler. I was just wondering if this was a short term, drag racing method only, or if it would possibly work for towing only when EGT's are high like when climbing hills etc. I believe that both methods serve the same purpose...to cool off the air going to the turbo ?

[hondarider552]

i'll still post some pics up when im done with install just to show. right now im just planning on running one big nozzel and one small, to match my mostly water setup. JFYI, the orm lbz windshielt is one drop short of 1.5 gallons, or atleast mine was

[hondarider552]

Okay...now I understand. How often can you spray, or is it just limited to how much water/meth you have in the storage tank ?
spray is based on a secondary boost tap that goes to the controller of the system.

[hondarider552]

installing everything monday morning. layed out everything on the table ):h, to make sure all the pieces were together.

[madmaxdmax]

Good luck with the install...when your done I'll let you look at my install...if you let me look at yours ):h

[hondarider552]

Good luck with the install...when your done I'll let you look at my install...if you let me look at yours ):h
ya thats fine. gimme gas money ):h.

:windshield washer tank went in with little problems, as did the pump. Drilled the two holes for the nozzles and they fit(whoo hoo). lines go in tomrrow with controller.

[madmaxdmax]

ya thats fine. gimme gas money ):h.

:windshield washer tank went in with little problems, as did the pump. Drilled the two holes for the nozzles and they fit(whoo hoo). lines go in tomrrow with controller.


HA! HA!---just brew more bio :thumb:

[hondarider552]

HA! HA!---just brew more bio :thumb:
i have my friend across the street go with me and be my lookout for the managers..):h

[NWTDIESEL]

Pics?

[hondarider552]

Pics?
of? ):h

[madmaxdmax]

of? ):h



You and your "look-out" buddy when your'e pumping the wvo maybe ??):h

[madmaxdmax]

:naughty: :the gas:

[NWTDIESEL]

of? ):h

The water/meth kit thats gonna put you in the 13's

[hondarider552]

The water/meth kit thats gonna put you in the 13's
:( :lol: im in vegas doing nothing. i'll get some up on monday.

[blksmok]

:( :lol: im in vegas doing nothing. i'll get some up on monday.

I hope you are looking for new oil sources for bio! :lol:

[madmaxdmax]

I hope you are looking for new oil sources for bio! :lol:



Funny thing is, at this rate Brian will probably be tempted to drive there for it;)

[CDR]

For a lightly tuned truck would you see any benifits with water meth?

[hondarider552]

Funny thing is, at this rate Brian will probably be tempted to drive there for it;)
only 7 hours...):h

[hondarider552]

For a lightly tuned truck would you see any benifits with water meth?
even on a stock truck i would still assume you could get some benifits

[blksmok]

For a lightly tuned truck would you see any benifits with water meth?

They advertise 70HP gain and 250° EGT reduction at the same time...

[hondarider552]

They advertise 70HP gain and 250° EGT reduction at the same time...
on what meth %? 33%? or heat 99%?):h

[blksmok]

on what meth %? 33%? or heat 99%?):h

50/50

I have a 55 gallon drum of Methanol at home... How much do you want?:deal::the gas::lol:

[hondarider552]

50/50

I have a 55 gallon drum of Methanol at home... How much do you want?:deal::the gas::lol:
not sure yet. Im planning on going with a bigger tank mounted in bed. i'll let you know

[NWTDIESEL]

Dyno tests some of my buddies have done have shown 15hp gains.....

[hondarider552]

Dyno tests some of my buddies have done have shown 15hp gains.....

with 50/50?

[NWTDIESEL]

They try all sorts of Mojo juice.....it cracks me up.):h

[hondarider552]

They try all sorts of Mojo juice.....it cracks me up.):h
ive been wanting to try a run with heet 99% meth
):h

[NWTDIESEL]

ive been wanting to try a run with heet 99% meth
):h

These guys are funny, they are using some nitro rc car fuel with oil in it and they are making some respectable numbers now.......but i didnt tell you that.):h

[hondarider552]

These guys are funny, they are using some nitro rc car fuel with oil in it and they are making some respectable numbers now.......but i didnt tell you that.):h
didnt think of that haha

[hondarider552]

Will have pics up tomorrow of kit. :thumb:

[madmaxdmax]

Will have pics up tomorrow of kit. :thumb:

Well...it's about time J/K. Nice install btw Brian. It really sucks (quite literally) that your air filter got sucked into your turbo. I sure hope the newest set-up works better. Are you going to get a pre-filter in this one ?

[hondarider552]

Well...it's about time J/K. Nice install btw Brian. It really sucks (quite literally) that your air filter got sucked into your turbo. I sure hope the newest set-up works better. Are you going to get a pre-filter in this one ?
being gone for a week doesnt help..):h New setup works perfect although i had to run to home depot again with no filter on, to grap a pvc fitting so it would work ):h

[blksmok]

It really sucks (quite literally) that your air filter got sucked into your turbo.

:confuzeld:

[madmaxdmax]

:confuzeld:



...I guess by your confusion that Brian didn't give you all the details...Looks like I let the cat out of the bag ! Seems that his old filter was sucked into the turbo on his way home from my house. -:t One of the pleats in the filter broke loose and in it went - no visible damage to the turbo.

[hondarider552]

...I guess by your confusion that Brian didn't give you all the details...Looks like I let the cat out of the bag ! Seems that his old filter was sucked into the turbo on his way home from my house. -:t One of the pleats in the filter broke loose and in it went - no visible damage to the turbo.

:exactly:
i was like :eek2:and wanted to :bawl: but then i had an :idea: and checked the turbine. I :bow:
the turbocharger gods for it being intact and ok :lol:

[hondarider552]

Here's my setup everyone..
what i did was buy a 12 gallon plastic tank from farm supply called Fimco here in AZ. I then capped off the 2" drain plug at the bottom of the tank and drilled a 3/8 drain in the bottom for my main feed line for water/meth mix. Then i used a compression fitting to seal both sides of the hose on the drain.

I ran 18 feet of 1/4" air line along the frame, secured it of course, up around the drivers side UCA, again secured to the fuel rails, and over to the input of my pump. It all flows down hill, so it is a little easier on the pump. I had to make a base for the tank since the original 2" drain plug was about 2" lower than the rest of the tank. I strapped down the tank with alluminum straps and used self tapping screws the hold everything down. Hope this helps anyone if they wish to do a DIY for this kit. :thumb: It took me about 5 hours to do everything, because i took my time and had to go get more air line since i was 5 feet short :(.

Note: Tie down strap was in place for 4x4 testing perposes only. didnt want 12 gallons go sloshing around my bed! ):h



http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/th_DSC01534.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/DSC01534.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/th_DSC01535.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/DSC01535.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/th_DSC01536.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/DSC01536.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/th_DSC01532.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/DSC01532.jpg)
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/th_DSC01533.jpg (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/brianbauman/DSC01533.jpg)

[madmaxdmax]

Brian,

If you need a steel frame/stand to secure the water tank let me know I can mig weld one up for you sometime if your even in my area...all you need is some steel. CRAP....now with this posting looks like I may have opened up a welding shop J/K ):h

[hondarider552]

Brian,

If you need a steel frame/stand to secure the water tank let me know I can mig weld one up for you sometime if your even in my area...all you need is some steel. CRAP....now with this posting looks like I may have opened up a welding shop J/K ):h
im thinking about it..):h looks ok to me but could be improved

[madmaxdmax]

If you need a steel frame welded up just let me know. Unfortunately I am not set-up for aluminum yet.....):h

[hondarider552]

If you need a steel frame welded up just let me know. Unfortunately I am not set-up for aluminum yet.....):h
ohh wait a second....steel!?! damn thats gunna make me heavyyy for the drags:( ):h

[hondarider552]

update:
meth is working great! i have been screwing around with the different mixes, and i have found that straight distilled water (11.5gals) and .5 gal of methanol give me the most EGT reductions.
I was on the highway on cruise at 65 and egts were ~550*

[James Hess]

Dude we need to get together and getmy rig going soon and so i can see this truck in person. All this talk about the stuff you have done makes me get the "ITCH" lol. ):h

[hondarider552]

Dude we need to get together and getmy rig going soon and so i can see this truck in person. All this talk about the stuff you have done makes me get the "ITCH" lol. ):h
its nice, but i have drained my IRA account :(