WVO - would like to start a' brewin'

[madmaxdmax]

I am beginning a new venture to start my WVO project. I have had a few fellow diesel owners express enough interest in making a first batch. What experiences do other members have in brewing up WVO - Not biodiesel, but filtered, dried and processed Waste Vege Oil ? I also had questions whether or not it is possible to run a mix of filtered wvo with #2 either as as additive in say a 40-50 percent mix or completely seperate in a pre-heated aux. fuel tank in the bed. Your thoughts and/or comments are greatly appreciated. I would like to get this experiment started and post results of the experiments.

Thanks :thumb:

[blksmok]

I'm not sure what all is needed, but from what I researched, it looked like you needed to mod the truck to maintain the fuel rail at 160° (IIRC). I didn't want to mod the truck, so that's why I'm doing bio...

[Mike]

Are you wanting first hand experience or will website's help with your "adventure"? My limited experience with the adventure showed fat removal was key to blending and storage. Removing the fat proved heating was no longer required for transfer or particulate build up.

[madmaxdmax]

Are you wanting first hand experience or will website's help with your "adventure"? My limited experience with the adventure showed fat removal was key to blending and storage. Removing the fat proved heating was no longer required for transfer or particulate build up.


YES...firsthand experience is wanted !!! Thanks. How did you go about removing the "fat" - unless you are referring to the "parafin" I have heard of ? In hot phoenix, I figured as long as the mixture of WVO and #2 was heated by running a mix directly in the tank, It would run okay since the return #2 in the tank is already being heated. Would I still need to run a seperate tank for the WVO.....or am I missing something ?

[Mike]

YES...firsthand experience is wanted !!! Thanks. How did you go about removing the "fat" - unless you are referring to the "parafin" I have heard of ? In hot phoenix, I figured as long as the mixture of WVO and #2 was heated by running a mix directly in the tank, It would run okay since the return #2 in the tank is already being heated. Would I still need to run a seperate tank for the WVO.....or am I missing something ?

In one batch I used x part Lye to x part methenol to x part wvo in a ratio determined from a titration test to help remove Free Fatty Acids. Worked good for removing the Free Fatty Acids. But, was kinda pricey as was the Lye, Methanol and so on required to really make a consistent reliable "Bio-Diesel".

On another occasion, I did run WVO filtered but found associated costs high and decided the refined chemically altered method best. Those costs included filters ( Many of them ), hard starts in cold weather ( ether ) and unreliability ( missed occasions cause my truck wouldn't start ). Part of the problems were because I did not flush the system occasionally or before the truck would set for extended periods of time.

I had a lot of fun making the very few batches I made. Problem is, I started working so many hours I couldn't justify loosing hours at work to save a couple extra dollars at the pumps so.... then came an even higher demanding job and so....


I think that Paraffin, as referenced with uncleaned/refined WVO, may be what builds up in the fuel lines and all where high flow areas are lacking but I could be wrong. By returning the fuel from the truck tank to the WVO tank, I think you'd end up with all your #2 in the WVO tank quicker than one might think. As far a mixing, I'd save the money on the #2 and apply the savings to methanol, lye and some good tanks or storage containers. I really liked the ride of the WVO "Bioed" but for hot rodding without a second cp3, you'd be pressed to perform equal.

[blksmok]

I'm confused... If you are still using methanol and lye, why not just make biodiesel?

I thought the whole advantage of running straight WVO was that you didn't have to "process" it with chemicals...

[Mike]

I'm confused... If you are still using methanol and lye, why not just make biodiesel?

I thought the whole advantage of running straight WVO was that you didn't have to "process" it with chemicals...

Sorry for the confussion. I should have added the second batch and so on.... I'll fix my poor excuse for an explanation. Thanks

[blksmok]

:iamlost:
From my understanding...
Straight WVO only needs to be filtered (via what methods I have no idea) and heated to ~160 degrees in the fuel rail.

Bio takes the WVO, and seperates the fuel from the waste product (glycerin) with a mix of methanol, lye and heat.

You drain off the glycerin and then wash the fuel with water and you have biodiesel.

So if you were running WVO, what were you using the methanol and lye for, and why were you mixing WVO with glycerin? I thought the whole point of processing the fuel was to remove the glycerin...

[Mike]

:iamlost:
From my understanding...
Straight WVO only needs to be filtered (via what methods I have no idea) and heated to ~160 degrees in the fuel rail.

Bio takes the WVO, and seperates the fuel from the waste product (glycerin) with a mix of methanol, lye and heat.

You drain off the glycerin and then wash the fuel with water and you have biodiesel.

So if you were running WVO, what were you using the methanol and lye for, and why were you mixing WVO with glycerin? I thought the whole point of processing the fuel was to remove the glycerin...

Not being an expert myself I really can't be for sure either. I have read and been victim to straight fryer grease oozing through my fuel lines to my pump. Couldn't move the stuff even with a lift pump. The stuff had to be heated before it ever left the tank.

I see what your saying about the glycerin comment. I'll fix it. Thinking one thing and writing another. Glycerin is the by product after separation. I guess my terminology may be wrong compared to others. I was assuming running filtered WVO was said as SWVO. I also was not explaining a process or steps to create biodiesel. Sorry again.

[madmaxdmax]

Okay, I think I am no longer confused..:lol: I guess with more research and a lot more detailed questions...some trial and error I may come up with a good WVO formula that I can run.

I am going to first try and filter....filter...heat and filter again down to 2 microns some quality WVO and mix a ratio of it with #2 and let it sit for a while and see what happens. I am trying to stay away from biodiesel due to the rubber fuel lines and flammability of the methanol (for the safety of the kids). I hope that as I experiment, I am able to ultimately run a mix of wvo with #2 to offset fuel costs...wish me luck ! In theory it can work since some people have been known to run used motor oil, filtered and mixed with #2 ? The way I see it, if you're willing to mix in a quart of two cycle oil, why not wvo ?:thumb:

[mattydmax]

I am new to the alt. fuels but will try to explain. Most WVO "blending" that you do in a single tank system, as in running it without an aux. tank requires more than just heat and #2. Some use kerosene, RUG(regular unleaded gasoline) and other things like xylene (paint thinner) and Naptha. Others also use the D..S..E method. I would really be careful of WVO blends as it takes quite a bit of experimentation and can cost more money in parts and time than a true Biodiesel setup. It is easy to get started but can really cost you later. As far as 2-cycle oil, ATF and others as additives I don't think these are being added in near the concentration you are considering with the WVO.

If you have ever seen what gets left behind in a full biodiesel reaction of WVO, I think you would not want to run that gunk through your fuel system. Experiment carefully and do research on WVO blending before you dump anything in your tank! On that note share any information you find out about this setup or any other as we could all use help on fuel prices. Not bashing your idea just trying to help you answer your question.

[madmaxdmax]

mattydmax,


Thanks for the reply and I appreciate your input:) :Handshake:

[madmaxdmax]

mattydmax,


I have been in contact with a local Phx. guy who has his own bio set-up running for 4 years now. He says he has the "bugs" worked out but has been hesitant to show me in detail how his set-up works. I'm not quite sure why this is, but as I learn more about the process I will be glad to pass the info on to you and others. Seems that the biggest hurdle with the refining process is keeping it consistent and quality control. I certainly don't blame them, after all I don't want to ruin my diesel truck investment either.

[blksmok]

mattydmax,


I have been in contact with a local Phx. guy who has his own bio set-up running for 4 years now. He says he has the "bugs" worked out but has been hesitant to show me in detail how his set-up works. I'm not quite sure why this is, but as I learn more about the process I will be glad to pass the info on to you and others. Seems that the biggest hurdle with the refining process is keeping it consistent and quality control. I certainly don't blame them, after all I don't want to ruin my diesel truck investment either.

If he sells them, he's hesitant because he doesn't want to give you all the info and have you go build one on your own, or worse yet, build and sell them from his knowledge.

I ran into the same thing when trying to dig in deep into the details of these things... There is a lot to learn, no doubt.

[madmaxdmax]

If he sells them, he's hesitant because he doesn't want to give you all the info and have you go build one on your own, or worse yet, build and sell them from his knowledge.

I ran into the same thing when trying to dig in deep into the details of these things... There is a lot to learn, no doubt.


He doesn't sell them, it seems that he is more afraid of getting nailed for fuel tax issues. It seems that he has batches in excess of 500 gallons on hand. He is open to giving me tid-bits of info, but I have not yet been invited over to see the "operation". All I would like is some instruction and an idea of materials that I need to get in order to make a batch. I will get my own oil and chems, just the knowledge and assy. of the components escapes me at this point. This would be for my own use. Even if I make too much I would definately go on a road trip to use any extra.):h

[mattydmax]

mad,
I am still working on my setup and will share ALL knowledge I can. I'm learning as I go so I won't have all the technical answers but I will be able to give you practical knowledge and answers and help anyone learn from my probable mistakes. It seems like to me that once you get past the learning curve it should be easy.

[madmaxdmax]

mad,
I am still working on my setup and will share ALL knowledge I can. I'm learning as I go so I won't have all the technical answers but I will be able to give you practical knowledge and answers and help anyone learn from my probable mistakes. It seems like to me that once you get past the learning curve it should be easy.

:thumb: :agreed:

[mattydmax]

Picked up my first 50 gal. of oil yesterday. Processor should be here the week of the 7th. Used a hand rotary barrel pump and emptied the drum in about 5 minutes or so. Pretyy easy procedure to suck the oil out. I set the empty barrel into my truck with pump, went to location and pumped from there barrel, came back home and pumped back into an empty barrel here and took the now empty out of my truck.

[madmaxdmax]

Sounds like a good plan. I have been diligently working this week after my day job securing wvo from various mom/pop eateries. Wish me luck...so far I have a place that will give me 10 gallons (vege/canola) once a week the other yields up to 300 gallons a month (soy). I have yet to secure the larger amount yet but was told to call the owner tomorrow. I plan on getting as much as I can, yet don't want to make it a every day job.:thumb:

[mattydmax]

I'm not pushing it on the oil collection just yet. The place I'm going now is good for about 50-55 gallons every three weeks. So I am starting there and getting some batches done with that first. Once I have my process down I will probably push it a little bit more. My setup is supposed to ship next week so I don't want to store too much early on. I figure even if I just cut my costs in half I'm doing awesome.

[madmaxdmax]

Great...I too want to get my feet wet and start off slowly. I def. don't want to get in over my head and end up storing 300 gallons of wvo at my house ! I figure I will start collecting in order to gain the support of the business owners I will be helping save $$ on the collection process. I will be experimenting to see what oils I end up with to ensure not just a steady supply, but a quality supply.):h

[swatkins]

Can you use all types of waste oil for this?

[madmaxdmax]

Can you use all types of waste oil for this?

I believe not all wvo's are equal in initial quality.


top choices are:

1) Peanut Oil
2) Soy Oil
3) Canola Oil
4) Vegetable oil

The general opinions are that the choice oils as listed above are what works best. I have learned that you want to stay away from white/cloudy oil mixes which are from contamination. A choice oil to use would be a darker golden color. Of course you can expect some food chunks and the like which need to be filtered out first. ):h

[swatkins]

So places that use lard and animal fats are not good to use?

[blksmok]

So places that use lard and animal fats are not good to use?

I've never processed lard, but I've heard that you can. You end up with a lot more waste by products and it's a real pain to collect and move because you have to heat it up to get it to flow. Can be done, but not your best option.

[madmaxdmax]

I've never processed lard, but I've heard that you can. You end up with a lot more waste by products and it's a real pain to collect and move because you have to heat it up to get it to flow. Can be done, but not your best option.



Agreed....I am planning on staying away from the lard ! :thumb: